Oktane19: The Psychology of Simplicity from Secure SSO to Seamless Collaboration

Alex Limi: My background is in cognitive psychology and computer science. Earlier I used to work on Google apps and after that I was the design lead for Firefox for a few years. The thing I wanted to talk about here is more like a general thing. It's some high level principles and some interesting anecdotes and fun things I started running into once I started working at enterprise software, which is aa whole world unto itself where his own rules. Hopefully, we'll keep it lights, quick, and entertaining. I won't be offended if you leave. This has very little to do with SSO and OKTA in general. This was kind of a last minute presentation we put together and I thought I would talk a little bit about stuff that I really know in depth, which is not OKTA. With that, you've been here how many days now?

Alex Limi: Three days. Have any of you heard of Highfive? A few scattered. Highfive is a new generation video conferencing system. It's one of the three only companies started after 2006 in video conferencing space frenemies are Zoom and BlueJeans. Those three are the new breed of how you do video conferencing using cloud based communication and with a new approach to this whole space. Specifically, one of the things that Highfive does is it doesn't require any apps it runs in the web browser, using a standard called Web RTC. Web RTC had a lot of buzz like two, three years ago. And having the browsers, I was like, well, you're talking about a too early. It's not actually in all the browsers yet, so it's not going to be useful.

Alex Limi: This is actually the air where all the browser it's got as the SSO support. When Safari just ship, literally last week, there are screen share and video supports and Safari, and that includes mobile Safari on your phone. And Microsoft is about to flip the switch to turn edge into chromium. Essentially, so then they also get a very good web RTC stock. What that means is a Highfive has a deployed clients user base of roughly four building devices out there by that happening. Anyway, I'm going to talk about some guiding principles. Some of these come from video conferencing, but they apply to most enterprise software, I dunno if any of you actually build enterprise software, or you mostly in IT and ... okay.

Alex Limi: Let's go. This was my reaction when I joined enterprise. I was like, is this thing being tested on any humans at all? Because I could not figure out any of this. It was like baffling to me that this software could be, people were using this software and even paying money for it. And the good thing is that the industry has come very far just in the past, I would say five to seven years on this. People expect the consumer level usability now. And a lot of the modern startups like slack and systems that have been built from the ground up to be as friendly as anything that you find on your phone digitally. But I was very baffled and especially in the video conferencing space, I'm pretty sure the video conferencing spaces is the butt of many jokes.

Alex Limi: Every time I watched Silicon Valley or movies that have video conferencing, they always make fun of the fact that video freezes or audio is dropping out. And the same for conference calls. To me that's irresistible this is a problem still isn't solved. And there's a new batch of companies that are trying to solve this and approach it with the same user friendliness, that FaceTime has on your phone. I'm going to go through a couple of things that are a pretty interesting. We all know passwords are broken. I don't think any of you have a password that has not been leaked online through one of these breaches. Unless you have two factor authentication and or you're extremely good and have a different password on every single website, which nobody, including all the security people I know are actually capable of. And you can install like one password and all these password managers, it can build this like infrastructure on top of this.

Alex Limi: That's one of the problems that OKTA sells. The single sign on. You have one password. You can have identity and authentication in one location. However, we at Highfive we can't rely on people having SSO. We have a ton, very long tail of people and companies that don't have a centralized solution for this. And we can't just tell them, get that to make sure you're secure. Also, on our side, we don't want to ever be responsible for a leak. If anybody should ever be able to get into any of our infrastructure and steal passwords that's really bad. And I don't want to be responsible for that. What do we do? We actually just eliminated the passwords. We have no passwords in our system and that sounds insane. But you've probably seen variations on this. Our system is innovatively called password less bargain. You see sometimes if you log into things like slack, they can send you a link that will log you in. And so where this came from was we did a user research on Firefox where we studied ... were actually building a password manager into Firefox.

Alex Limi: We did a lot of studies around how people actually handle their passwords. Lots of cool stories, like people have small books where they've written down all their passwords, same posted notes everywhere. And most people just use the same password everywhere and most people can't remember their passwords. They go to this site or this service rarely enough that every time they go there, they don't know their password. We literally had, I think it was 30% of the people who we looked at wouldn't even try to type in their password. They just went straight for the reset password link. They were like, there is no way I'm going to remember this. I'm going to ask to get a new password and then they click that thing in their email. That sounds absolutely terrible, but it's actually a reasonable approach.

Alex Limi: And the reason for that is email is your last resort. If somebody breaks your email, everything is out the window. You can reset passwords everywhere. You can steal all your accounts. We have to assume that email is secure, and it has to be and if you get access to that person's email, it doesn't matter how secure our system is because you can just ask her a new password. The way we do it is the first time you woke up to a Highfive you say, here's my email address, and we check, are you a sole customer? If so, always I need to OKTA, are you Office 365 in which case we send you over there, are you on Google apps user? We send you over there. If all of those fail, we just sent out an email, and we say, click the link in your email, and you're going to be logging in.

Alex Limi: Another thing we do is the more modern concept of leaving that log in. We log you in for a year at a time. And again, going back to the logic that if somebody can walk up to your computer unlocked and have access to email and nobody has separate password on their email at that point, you've lost the game anyway. We're essentially outsourcing that security to your email, which needs to be secure anyway, and hopefully it has two factor auth. That was one way we did that. We had roughly 15 to 20% of our supports volume. Every week was, what's my password? We flipped the switch on this and went to zero. No problem. Nobody has problems logging in. That was quite a happy day for our support team because that is not a fun problem to try to resolve.

Alex Limi: The other principle we have is don't try to solve the social problems with technology. And what I mean by that is very often especially in the enterprise space, we try to enforce behavior through some security mechanism. And going back to video conferencing, the classic one, there is you're in a meeting with four people, and you have to ask for permission to share your screen. Why is that a thing? You're talking to four people. We even know that all those four people work at your company by authenticating them. Why do I have to ask my coworker to share my screen? That's absolutely crazy. And why are their passwords and pin codes and all this stuff everywhere. We have authenticated, we know where you belong. We've established that you work for the company and if you don't work for your company, we have a simple security model of just says then somebody in the company's meeting who you're joining and still let you in. But this is clearly not about security. Why is this the default behavior?

Alex Limi: The other example we use as this straight up analogy, like if you have a conference room, and I just walk in, and you're there, you will say, "Hey, we actually have a meeting here, please leave." And so we don't have any restriction on a meeting. There are ways to make meetings that you can't join, but that's not the default behavior. And a lot of this is about that. Like enterprise has a tendency to just take the worst case scenario and make that the default behavior and that's no good. Finding ways to support the common pattern of what people do every single day and make that extremely easy. And then you have some specialized edge cases that you can go find and configure if you need that. Switching tack a little bit or to the cognitive psychology part of my brain. One of the things we did with Highfive we worked with, I did forget to mention. Highfive is very hardware centric compared to a lot of these things.

Alex Limi: WebEx and Zoom, they're what's called in the industry web conferencing, which is super misleading because it's actually not on the web. They all have apps you need to download, we'll get to that later. We essentially set out, and we said we're not going to get the best possible video conferencing in the world unless we control every single part of the stack, including all the way down to the hardware and run our own software on the hardware that is in the room. We are a very room centric. We consider laptop to laptop video conferencing, mostly solved the moment you need to have a room in that meeting. Then things get complicated both acoustically and just like usability wise and everything around. Getting a conference room into a call is extremely complicated. We partnered as the first video conferencing provider with a company called Dolby, which you've probably heard of. They are also across the street here doing lots of like audio cinemas.

Alex Limi: They had made this thing that they called Adobe conference phone, and they were literally trying to sell it as a conference phone. The problem is in 2017, nobody's buying new conference phones. That doesn't seem like a thing you would be doing. And they actually made this amazing system that captures the entire room. It has what's called a Spatial Audio capture. It captures in 360 surround sound, although surround sound is something different. But it has a different approach where it just tries to capture the room instead of using noise cancellation to get rid of unwanted sounds. You should try it out downstairs booth G1 we're showing it. And we have some special offers for OKTA customers later here. But the thing I wanted to get to here, which is interesting, you have to design for the way human perception works.

Alex Limi: And has anybody here heard about the cocktail party effect? It's essentially if this was a big party and everybody's talking, it's really noisy here. And you would see it downstairs too, and the conference hall. But you can focus in on a person that is like roughly where you're pointing your head, and your brain eliminates the noise out, and you can make sense of what that person is saying. And the similar kind of principle is in play here with a Spatial Audio. What happens is when we put that in a conference room, and you have like seven people around the table, all the voices come from different points when you're sitting remotely and listening to what's coming from that room. And the reason that's important is people talk over each other. They have these what's called conversational triads, but two people we'll be talking, a third person will be butting in carefully starting a sentence right before the other person and says his or her sentence. And so all these people really talk over each other all the time. And that's what makes it really hard to follow along when you're remote, and a video conference that has people in the room.

Alex Limi: What this does is it makes those three people will come from different locations on your end, which means you can parse out who's talking on and what they're saying, even if they're talking is out here at the same time, which most of the time they will be doing. That was one of the things that we weren't willing to compromise on. We want it to go all the way in on this. And we were Adobe's first partner that turned this former actual voice conference phone into an integral part of a video conferencing offering. The other cool thing about that is that it comes with a touch screen on the device itself. And we run our software, again, all the way down to all the devices here, so we can make the simplest possible UI on this now. There're other companies that have started following down that path and even other partners of Dolby that have started doing this. But we did that about a year before anybody else. Pretty proud of that partnership.

Alex Limi: If you get the chance to check out how that sounds, it's one of those things I can send her and talk all I want about it, but unless you've heard it, you don't get just how much of a difference it makes. Here's another one. Nobody wants to install an application to join your meeting. And other solutions solve this by becoming large enough that people already have it installed. But that seems like the wrong solution, especially for a startup like ours. And we want to be on the same footing as WebEx or go to meeting or any of these people who are halfway competing with in that space. We went all in on a what's called Web RTC. And a lot of people have this impression that and this is more for the people in the video conferencing space. But Web RTC like I said, was the hot new technology two to three years ago. But until it's deployed across all browsers, it isn't delivering on that promise. 2019 is the year that that promise will actually be delivered.

Alex Limi: The way Highfive works, you click a link, and you're in the goal. There is nothing else to do. You have everything set up. And again, we flip those switches to support those browsers, and we have billions of installed clients for our products. If you had to all work in this space, web RTC is super exciting, and the difference between having that kind of seamless just go here, get everything working with no software install is quite mind blowing. Combine that with the harbor solution we have we're also running in AWS, Hyper Scale cloud. There is no hardware to worry about. There's no like Mac community to maintain. This is a good example of the current state of the industry. And sorry, I'm going to take a little bit of a ... and be mean to one of our competitors here. You can't shape this in 2019. You can't leave the security up to the end point of the user.

Alex Limi: You can't say you have this massive security hole in Zoom that lets anybody control your meeting, and you're shaping up that says bug fixes. And when does the update come up? It comes up when you launch Zoom ready to join the meeting. The last thing you want to do then is spent five minutes because they're already late for your meeting. Everybody just clicks later. I say this from the feel all the time. People open up Zoom, and it always has an update, and it's always later because I don't have time for that. I'm late for my meeting. This isn't like cloud video conferences. This is insecure and point conferencing. You're literally saying there are millions of clients out there and tomorrow they are all insecure. And we need to slowly patched them all up. With Web RTC, you reload the webpage, and it works. And if there is a deep security hole, you bet that Google is already on top of that.

Alex Limi: We also have an APP, I'm not like down on apps in general. If you want apps, if you think how slack does it, where they can open up slack in a web page, we can also have a dedicated app, but you have to have an updater that is silent, quiet, just gets this done behind the scenes. We actually used the chrome updater to update our thing. You'll never see us updates. It's always just the latest version.

Alex Limi: Here's the other part of that had equation. This is no way to run a conference room. It's cool that you can do this. The amount of elements involved here is going to lead you down a very dark path of problems. First off, you have like a computer that is running Mac OS or windows that one we'll need the updates all the time. On top of that, you run some drivers for the camera, or the microphone you installed. There's wires everywhere. There's a keyboard attached. There's an iPad that controls the Mac mini that runs whatever software is hooked up to a TV. Any of these devices can be unplugged, and the of these devices can run out of battery full off the network. Like people will unplug it to recharge their phones. People, we'll unplug the network cable to find the intranet because the Wifi isn't working right now.

Alex Limi: This is the state of the low end of the industry, which is if you take one of these web conferencing platforms, and you say, Oh, I want to put it in the room, this is what you end up with. And this came from one of our customers. They were trialing us against some other solutions. This is not something we set up to be extra bad or anything. This was literally the box take off too when they tried the other solution. And again, you can get it working, but it's very error prone. And if you work in IT, all you want is for stuff to be reliable and be like a fridge. It should be an appliance. You put it in the room, it runs for the next 20 years, and then maybe you buy a new fridge at the end of 20 years.

Alex Limi: And if you haven't seen our harbor set up, I encourage you to go down a to G1 and take a look at it and literally has two components. It has the thing that hangs on the TV with a camera, and a computer is inside of the camera. And then it has this Dolby unit on the table and that's it. And we control all the updates. We take care of all the security. It doesn't even need to be inside your network. It can be on a DMZ that is technically outside of your network and everything still works. And this is another indicator of something going wrong. Have you guys seen this? When we started Highfive, we got requests from customers saying, do you guys have table tents? Do you have anything you can put in the rooms to teach people how to start a video conference. And we were like, I'm never going to ship that. If that is still a problem, we haven't solved it back to the drawing board. We don't have tape. That's not our feature.

Alex Limi: These systems are really complicated. I still don't know how WebEx works, but that's probably to my advantage. This essentially means if you have an important meeting, you have to have IT come in and be in the meeting to make sure nothing goes wrong. And that is the least fun job for any IT manager. How many of you have these in your conference rooms? Okay. That's better than I expected, but still quite a few. Here's another principle we have at Highfive, which is the concept of a user license on a collaboration tool is actively hostile to the user. You see people share user licenses to save money and people log in with there are some accounts that can be host to conflict and host meetings and then they use free accounts to go in and join us guests. Any collaboration solution that gets more expensive, the more people make use of it. That's very counterintuitive to us. And again, we have the luxury of not having to sell user licenses because we sell hardware. You pay per room per month. It's like a leasing model. It's like having a cable box and that's how we cover our costs.

Alex Limi: We just made everything available. If you have 20 people today and tomorrow you have 500 people because suddenly private equity's swooped in and let you acquire a company or something. It doesn't really change your costs unless you add more rooms. This leads to so many dysfunctions and just like how people use software. And again, managing all of that stuff is also not something you want to do. You don't want the 21st person to sign up to that solution to get the message saying, Oh yeah, you need to contact your admin to upgrade to the 40% palm or do I use WebEx enough to justify having a WebEx accounts? We just took that off. No, using the licenses in Highfive.

Alex Limi: This one goes back to the Adobe partnership. The other thing they do in addition to this, conference phone with the Spatial capture is they have unbelievable noise consolation and that is exactly what you want for video conferencing. If you're joining from a device, you are traveling, you're in an airport, you're in a car, you're on the train. And the difference between having a wide band, 16 Kilo Hertz audio with amazing noise cancellation and calling in VR like a PSTN old school, eight kilo Hertz, noisy line with no noise cancellation as night and day. I've literally been in SFO with tons of people around me talking and people are like, where did you find a quiet spot of SFO? And I'm like, I didn't. But this is something, if you're looking into this, make sure you do tests, how well it performs in this noisy environments. Because this is the real world that the whole reason for having video conferencing and audio conferencing stuff is, so you don't have to get everybody in the same room and half of them are going to be in an environment like this.

Alex Limi: This to some people, this is a little provocative. One of the things we do as a principal is what we call proactive administration. The difference between this and other types of Admin is more we will reach out to you and tell you when we know something wrong. I know mind blowing, but you'd be surprised how many of these solutions are you digging through the logs to figure out what's going on or downloading a CSV to get some analytics or stuff like that. What we do, so one example is if you walk into a room, and you're unplugged one of our units within a couple of minutes you have an email as an IT admin that says somebody unplugged that room, that room is now broken. We let you define VIPs in your company. You can say everybody in the executive team plus these two people are VIPs. Any time these have a bad experience anywhere for any receipts, the network was bad, or they couldn't get audio running or anything like that.

Alex Limi: We have a ton of telemetry, and we use that telemetry to inform you so that, if you're the IT admin, and the VP of sales just had a terrible call, you have an email from us before he walks down the hallway to say he had a bad call. It was because this, this router in this room has 10% packet loss. You probably need to go look at that cable or that router and see what's going on because this is not normal. That's the kind of thing we're trying to do. We were trying to make our IT people look like superheroes because they are, and they shouldn't be dealing with this stuff and when things go wrong, at least you have the answer, and you have next steps for how to go fix that, So it doesn't happen again.

Alex Limi: This goes back to the same point, which is we have what we call proactive supports. We have humans instead of phone trees. If you tried to get supported at Highfive, you get people on the line within 30 seconds. If you want to do video, we can do that. We do a lot of our support through video and that actually helps a lot even though you'd think it's not that big of a deal. It establishes that connection and communication between the person that is frustrated, and the person trying to help. And of course you get screen sharing you get all these other advantages, implicitly through that. But equally important is we use telemetry on the back end so that when you come to us, we already won't know what went wrong. We don't ask you can you try restarting it or you know, have you tried, doing these standard, we don't lead you through this phone tree of a script that's says. You need to do these things and then we can start looking at the problem because we have all the data on our side, we know what's going on, we know all these things are working, this thing is not working.

Alex Limi: When you call into us, we generally have a pretty good idea about what's happening. And we have like between 98 and 99% customer search for our support, which is unbelievable. Like everybody that contacts us, our biggest problem is when people have a bad experience and they don't talk to us because then we can't do anything. But if they contact us, we find a way to do that. And we also, our support team in house, they're sitting right next to the engineers. If something goes wrong, they, poke them and say, Hey, what's this about? I haven't seen this before. That is one of the things that lead us to this like 98% CSR, which is we solve it every time there is first of all.

Alex Limi: This is my rants. This entire industry, and again, I'm talking about video conferencing, but I'm sure you have a couple incident in your fields. Everybody's so concerned with the technology, right? Everybody's in our industry Inter op is a big thing. Can I hook this Highfive units up to a WebEx Unit? Can I join a Zoom call from this thing? Which that's important. That has been the industry's focus for the past 25 years, and it still isn't working. To me I'm like, cool, we tick the box, we move on. But that is not fundamentally solving the problem of connecting to people that need to talk to each other. And the same with like codex and like AI transcriptions and all these, everybody's trying to find the next big thing when the next big thing is just making the basics work because we're still not there. And again, this is the reason why we get all these funny jokes and movies and TV series because we still haven't delivered on this.

Alex Limi: This is my plea for the industry and for most industries, get the basics right because most of them are not there yet. And until we have close to 100% success rate to getting into the call, having flawless quality of the calls, we can't do the whole like of AI. Will the future of video conferencing be VR? No, they will not like nobody's gonna put on the helmets to be in a video conference. This is just a wider points to my industry, but it applies to most of the enterprise stuff, which is we tend to be very seduced by new things as opposed to going back and doing another iteration on a thing that's almost there. This is my plea to the industry. I like where we're going with this in general, I would say we're so much better off than five to seven years ago, but there is so much more to do.

Alex Limi: And I'm actually very curious what frustrations you have with video conferencing. Definitely talk to me if you have any or are evaluating videoconferencing, or you have an existing one that fail soon in some way. I promise I won't sell you on it. I'm not in sales, but I find it fascinating. I'm in product. I want to hear how people use things. And the same for other enterprise software because we work with and integrates with a lot of this enterprise software stuff. We need to know what's failing in other areas that we can go fix on behalf of the industry. I wanted to talk to be shorts it's a little bit of a scattered thing all over the place. I do want to give you the chance to ask questions if you have any. And I also want to tell you that we have a partnership with OKTA for this upcoming period or if you sign up for Highfive, you get to use it for unlimited one year for free. You will have essentially a web conferencing, you have a thing that can replace most of the web conferencing and stuff out there without any downloads. It just opens up in a browser.

Alex Limi: And if you go to hifive.com/offers/okta or I think there should be like a piece of paper in front of you that has the same thing, uh, that gives you a more detailed overview of Highfive. And I'm also happy to talk to you about any of this stuff. Any questions? I know it's not the easiest thing. It's a very open ended talk. If you have questions?

Alex Limi: Are you guys pushing down updates to the camera and the audios yourself?

Alex Limi: That's a good question. It's actually the same way. We used to chrome auto updater, runs on all of our devices, so we update overnight. We time it, so it's like 2:00 AM and wherever you are. And we update all of the conference phones, the cameras, everything. That is always running the latest version. If you go and talk to our customers said bought Highfive two years ago, still have the same hardware and they're like, Holy Shit, this, sorry. I swear a lot I'm Scandinavian. The thing that I bought two years ago has become so much better and I didn't have to do anything. And we update it every two weeks. And again we take care of security updates, all that stuff. And we have a very secure platform purpose built for this. It's not running like Mac Os or windows, it's running a super locked down Linux distribution that we have full control over signed in all sorts of ways to make sure that can never be tempered.

Speaker 2: Cool. Followup to that question is I've worked a lot of places that usually they don't really embrace video conferencing. And it's either your business does it or your business doesn't. I find more often than not that people hate staring at each other. We usually go straight to the audio. You find that the bulk of your customers are using just the audio features are just the video features or how are you breaking that up as a business?

Alex Limi: That's actually one of our main challenges as a company, as culture change. The younger the company is to younger the employees, they have the more used to, they are to being on video. Like your sons or daughters are probably on Snapchat right now. But people that have been in this industry for a long time and had to have done all their interactions through a conference, phone bridge, they have a little bit of trouble getting into that mindsets. We do as best as we to bridge this over, we are not forcing you to use video or anything. We just say even if you don't want to use a video, having that wide band, Dolby audio is going to make night and day difference for every single call you're in. You can hear everybody, you sound good to everybody, even if you just want to use it as a phone, just still going to get a phone that has literally three times as capable and in terms of audio quality as a normal phone calls.

Alex Limi: The question is, do we have customers that are worried that we're eavesdropping on their conferences? That would be very bad for us. The way I generally say this, we have no incentive to do that. And we even have like a philosophy I talked about. We don't want to store passwords. We don't want any personal information. You give us money, we give you the service. We're not trying to like mine or do anything with your data or your information or your calls. We don't store anything unless you ask us to record the meeting and put it on the server, so you can get it later. And generally, this is not a problem. I think people are mostly beyond that level of where they think that having a local thing that sits inside your four walls at work and makes anything more secure than a cloud based solution built by people that know how cloud works.

Alex Limi: Overall, I would say very rare. It definitely happens with companies that have huge investments and let's say Cisco Hardware, they have like 50 cameras that they bought from Time Berg and 2002 or whatever and they want to use that system, and don't understand how this cloud thing can go. One of the best things that happened to us as actually as this upcoming Zoom IPO, because Zoom has proven that that market is actually trusting enough to go full cloud. And that's very encouraging for our entire industry. Cisco better wake up. He's asking, we have conference rooms that have other AVA equipments and Crestron and interfaces and stuff like that. The answer is complicated or rather if the answer is actually very easy. The four for AVA equipments, everything now is used to be based.

Alex Limi: We actually run our own Os and you can just plug in a USB capable devices. Both cameras and microphones and speakers have been standard in USB since the standard was launched. That's not a problem. I'm not talking, there's a separate category here, which is like if you buy a Cisco camera, and it's a sip camera or some standalone thing that needs to be hooked up to some sort of thing under the table. Those cameras are not what I'm talking about here. That's interrupts support which we have that again, it doesn't really solve the problem, but it can be used with Highfive. But the best thing to do right now and you see this happening, logic tech, Polycomm, Yamaha, you name it, like everybody that makes hardware for microphones, speakers, cameras are just full in on the USB train there.

Alex Limi: We sit down the metal, we make sure the user experience, the updates, everything is taken care of. And then it's not bring your own hardware. It's bring your own microphone, speaker, and camera. That's really what you want. You want a room like this to be able to have a setup with a lapel mikes, and a camera that points in here, and you plug all that into a high box over there with USB. And then it all works. It is modular in that sense. For crestron, this is my personal opinion. Don't take this as a Highfive's opinion. I think crestron does a lot more harm than they do good. They are and we called it that kind of junk. But, fundamentally we can make a much better UI in the room then Creston can. We are and I know how arrogant that sounds, but we get usability, we have touch screens in every room with us, a Dolby phone. We can integrate things into the Dolby from that control other aspects of the room. And we think we can do that a lot better than a company like Creston, which is generally not the most forward looking of companies as far as usability goes.

Alex Limi: He's asking how large of an audience can you support through this? There's a couple of levels, and I'll highlight the things that are coming very soon. The things we have right now in one conference, you can have 125 participants right now. That's the baseline average meeting capability. We are building in some tools. The number of participants is actually less challenging than how do you manage a meeting in a room that has that many people in it. What we're doing right now, we're building a good UI to manage a meeting of that size. And then in parallel we are adding support for live streaming and stuff like that. If you have something like an apple keynote or a product announcement or something like that, you want to be live, but you're expecting and thousands of people to show up, we support that. We just streamed that through AWS, and we scale as far as Amazon goes.

Alex Limi: Those sort of things that we're doing in that area and then in the future where we're going to build things like the webinars on top of that. We can support quite a number of users right now up to 125 in one call. If you need more than that, you probably start thinking about live streaming and more like a broadcast kind of a case. And that's also coming probably next quarter. Any questions? Anybody here worked in design or usability? Okay. Anything else? Come on talk to me. Thank you for bearing with me. I know this is not a traditional talk, but hopefully you had fun.