Oktane19: Mastering SaaS Operations in High-Growth Companies

Michoel Ogince: Okay. We're thrilled and honored to have the head of IT an InVision with us today. Before we even introduce and go into any details about managing SaaS in hydro with companies, couple questions for you here, Vicky.

Vicky Couturier: Go for it.

Michoel Ogince: I understand that InVision, now, is 800 plus.

Vicky Couturier: Yes, that's correct.

Michoel Ogince: How much exactly ...

Vicky Couturier: Close ...

Michoel Ogince: Close to nine?

Vicky Couturier: Closer to a thousand.

Michoel Ogince: Closer to a thousand. The entire company is remote?

Vicky Couturier: That is correct.

Michoel Ogince: No offices?

Vicky Couturier: There are no offices.

Michoel Ogince: That means that you are managing Okta and SaaS operations from your ...

Vicky Couturier: Couch.

Michoel Ogince: Couch?

Vicky Couturier: Yes.

Michoel Ogince: Unbelievable. That is awesome. It's inspirational. My name is Michoel Ogince. I lead product strategy and customer success at Intello. Intello is a SaaS operations platform. We're based in New York City. Prior to Intello, I was at Google incubating products, and also spent a number of years in the venture capital space, and both of those, I was exposed to the explosion and proliferation and ever growing number of SaaS subscriptions, and all the challenges that are associated and came along with that. Few quick thank yous as well. I know a lot of effort went into making this event possible. Of course, Vicky, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you to my team, at our team at Intello for all the support in putting together everything related to our Oktane sponsorship and presence. To the Oktane team, thank you so much. Of course, most importantly, to every single one of you for being here today.

Michoel Ogince: Vicky, it'd be great to learn a little bit more about yourself. You've been at InVision for how many years now?

Vicky Couturier: Little over two years.

Michoel Ogince: Little over two years, and prior to that, you were ... Where did you come from?

Vicky Couturier: Uber before that, Zendesk before that.

Michoel Ogince: How did you land a gig at InVision?

Vicky Couturier: I had a friend that I worked with at Zendesk, who is one of the VPs over there, and he was like, "We need you." A couple years into the company starting, he reached out to me and he was like, "We need you."

Michoel Ogince: Awesome. He was the VP at InVision?

Vicky Couturier: User enablement.

Michoel Ogince: At InVision?

Vicky Couturier: Yes.

Michoel Ogince: Got it. Day to day, what is your primary responsibilities?

Vicky Couturier: Well, I manage a team of IT support. Two are engineers, one is a support, and daily, I just wake up and I look at my meetings, see what I have for meetings, and I see what's going on with, we use Slack, so I check in Slack and see what's going on, what's needed. A lot of SaaS needs, and a lot of Okta, a lot of onboarding, some off-boarding.

Michoel Ogince: I understand you went from 200 employees to a thousand in how much time?

Vicky Couturier: I started two years ago, so it was like ... In one year, we went from four to eight plus.

Michoel Ogince: 400 employees to 800 plus.

Vicky Couturier: Yes.

Michoel Ogince: Cool. From a long term vision, and goal, responsibility, perspective, what's your goal over there?

Vicky Couturier: My goal.

Michoel Ogince: Yeah, at InVision, so not day to day, but long term.

Vicky Couturier: Yes. The long term goal is managing SaaS and equipments, and how do you figure out the world where everybody is remote. There's no infrastructure.

Michoel Ogince: Cool. We're going to dive into that, some of the remote challenges and opportunities that come along with that shortly. InVision being a high growth company, I'm assuming that there are a number of challenges and opportunities that have come along with that. Maybe you could speak about some of the challenges associated with that. As you went from 200 to 800, what hit you in the face?

Vicky Couturier: Great question. When I first started, I was the IT director, and I was the only IT person there. Right? At first, I thought, this is great. There's no office, there's no network, I came from billing out offices, and having huge IT teams and engineering teams, and I thought three people, we can do it. Everything is remote. Everything is SaaS. We can totally do this with a staff of three. Yeah, that slapped me in the face big time. It actually is a little harder than that.

Michoel Ogince: But you've nailed SaaS operations with a team of four. Including yourself, four, right?

Vicky Couturier: Including myself, four. That means that I'm still wearing many hats, and thank you for Intello, and Okta, we get to integrate everything through Intello and Okta. Before that, it was, I didn't know. Shadow IT, yes. That was a nightmare.

Michoel Ogince: Nightmare.

Vicky Couturier: It was a freaking nightmare.

Michoel Ogince: The founder of InVision, Clark Valberg, is someone I know personally and he has a mantra in the company that every single employee at InVision is a designer. How does that, from an IT perspective, how does that play into your daily role? Design thinking, design strategy, does it play into ... How do you take Clark's mantra of like, "I'm a designer, and I'm managing hundreds of SaaS applications across a distributed team."

Vicky Couturier: Yeah, Clark, Clark is really awesome. Yeah, lots of love for Clark. He's really into the whole company. If I had a conversation about being a designer with him, he'd shake his head, because stick figures maybe, and being an IT and engineer, yeah, no. It's not. At first, I was like, how am I going to be a designer? To his point, what happens is you learn how to design the infrastructure of what IT is going to look like in this kind of company. That's what I've been working towards this.

Michoel Ogince: How do you design that? Do you use InVision to design that? Is it like workflows and like ...

Vicky Couturier: Yeah, we do eat our own dog food. InVision Freehand. We use Freehand to design little swirly, I'm really bad, but we do all of the how the equipment process works for every new hire around the world, and how the SaaS process works for the many, many apps that we have. Yes, that's IT's fun, designing.

Michoel Ogince: Design thinking.

Vicky Couturier: Design thinking, yes.

Michoel Ogince: Incredible. Okay. Quick poll from the audience. Who here in the audience, raise your hand if you're all SaaS, no on Prem. 30% InVision. Any on-Prem?

Vicky Couturier: None.

Michoel Ogince: All SaaS?

Vicky Couturier: All SaaS.

Michoel Ogince: Entire company?

Vicky Couturier: Entire company.

Michoel Ogince: Who has, from a SaaS perspective, between 100 and 200 applications, raise your hand, that you know about?

Vicky Couturier: Keyword.

Michoel Ogince: Six, seven people? Between 200 and 300 SaaS applications?

Vicky Couturier: A couple.

Michoel Ogince: More than 300? Wow. Anyone more than 400? One, two. Two people, incredible. SaaS first world. Overwhelming. Spreadsheets. Who is using spreadsheets to manage their SaaS applications?

Vicky Couturier: Or used to?

Michoel Ogince: You used to use spreadsheets?

Vicky Couturier: We did.

Michoel Ogince: What are you using now?

Vicky Couturier: Intello.

Michoel Ogince: Okay. Awesome. Seriously, who's using spreadsheets? Show of hands. Everybody's using spreadsheets to manage their SaaS apps? Cool. Okay, so SaaS operations. I think it's seen, it's a relatively new term in the industry, and we're seeing IT move from the traditional responsibilities goals and roles within a company, to managing SaaS. Vicky, what does SaaS operations mean to you at InVision?

Vicky Couturier: Well, SaaS, for me, started when I worked at Zendesk over five, six years ago. It was SaaS. Everything was SaaS there. It was my dream. It was a dream come true. I used to Casper, for any of you remember the little cartoon, Casper, and the cloud. That has been, ever since then, it's been my vision to have everything SaaS. It started, for me, at Zendesk, and so when I came to InVision, and when Brandon came to me and said, "We need you," I was like, "You work from home? Wait, what? Everything is SaaS? You have no office, no ... Okay, this is going to be awesome. Let's do this." The thing is, what happens is you have a lot of shadow IT. For me, it's been trying to figure out what everyone is using, and making sure that everyone that works at a company has the tools that they need.

Vicky Couturier: For me in IT, you don't want to be a blocker, you want to provide what people need. But then, realize that it gets a little crazy because when you have over three and 400, and I report to the VP of finance. He's like, "Wait, how much money are we spending on things?" In the beginning, we had Excel sheets to manage what you knew about, but that changed when ...

Michoel Ogince: Got it. You mentioned, some of the goals that you're trying to accomplish at InVision around SaaS operations, seem to be shadow IT, granting employees access to the applications, and the IT teams reporting into finance, right? SaaS spend and having control and insight into SaaS spend. Other than those three, are there any other things around SaaS operations that you're trying to achieve outside of those?

Vicky Couturier: Yeah. Outside of those, trying to achieve is there's so many apps out there. It's what are people using, why are they using it, how are they using it, how much are we paying for those, reporting to the finance, it's all about the money. It's how much are we spending on these apps, who's using it, why? A lot of it is trying to figure out the security measures, and also we use Okta to, everything goes into Okta. The first question for IT is, is it simul? Can we put it in Okta, and can we provision and de-provision from Okta? Those are the things that I think about and try to implement and make sure that we can do.

Michoel Ogince: How do your employees request a SaaS application? What's that process look like?

Vicky Couturier: Thankfully, so we have a BizTech team that set up INVC, which is an InVision procurement form. If anyone comes to IT, which every day, a million times a day they do, they want to know, they want to use something, everyone has the tools that they think is best for them. What we do, if we don't already have it, we just say, put this form in. It just asks you what the application is. The cost, and all the information from security, and that goes through a process of security, the finance, and all of ... Then, what happens is it comes [crosstalk 00:14:04] ...

Michoel Ogince: Does the legal touch that also?

Vicky Couturier: Legal always touches it. Then, usually that's where it takes some time. Then, it comes to us, and for IT, what we do is the procurement of it. We just make sure that we have admin access, and the first question is, "Can it connect to Okta?" We connect it. If it does, we connect it to Okta, we do simul, and then we start with groups. We set up groups, and then ...

Michoel Ogince: In Okta?

Vicky Couturier: In Okta, and then we say provisioning, de-provisioning, and if that's available, we do that. Then, we start the process. We add it to the IT provisioning process for onboarding, or anybody who switches teams, or whoever needs that application.

Michoel Ogince: When an application has gone through this process, security, legal, and up to IT, have you ever looked at this app and be like, "One second, this is a no-no. We're not allowing this into the company"?

Vicky Couturier: We have. We have. What we do at that point, is we connect with security and we talk through that process. But we've never really said no. In the end, it's always like, okay, yes, we'll do this.

Michoel Ogince: Got it. Data breaches on any third party SaaS apps that are being used at the company. Is that something you keep a pulse on?

Vicky Couturier: We do. We really do. IT is really, really close with security. Anything that can come up, security shows anything that's going on, anything they hear about, and it's a little scary, right, because anyone can sign up for anything. The great thing with Intello is I can go into Intello and say, "What are people using?" Anything that is outside of what's been approved, then I can go reach out to those people.

Michoel Ogince: How did you, before Intello, so putting Intello aside for a moment, how did you, what processes and strategies did you use to uncover shadow IT?

Vicky Couturier: Well, when I started, there was a sheet in [crosstalk 00:16:37].

Michoel Ogince: Sounds like a nightmare.

Vicky Couturier: Oh no, it was really bad. It was a sheet of a couple of hundred applications that somebody who was at InVision from the beginning, put into a sheet. These people got this. Then anything else that came about came from, we'd get a Slack or an e-mail of somebody saying, "Hey, can I get access to this application?" At first, for me, it was like, "I don't even know what that is." I would research it. It was somebody from some team had set up a long time ago and wanted access. That was the only way. It was finding out from other departments.

Michoel Ogince: Right. Cool. Amazing.

Vicky Couturier: Scary.

Michoel Ogince: Tools, you've spoken a lot about Slack. It seems to be very important for your daily workflow.

Vicky Couturier: Yes.

Michoel Ogince: It's your favorite tool?

Vicky Couturier: I live in Slack. Don't e-mail me. Slack or text me.

Michoel Ogince: I spent a lot of time communicating with Vicky, on a day-by-day, sometimes obviously weekly basis, and product strategy and product success, and I always notice, and it's interesting in a remote and distributor company, there's always an emoji or a Slack next to your profile around something that you're doing. Out for coffee, away from my desk, don't disturb me. How do you deal with the different time zones? Employees on the other side of the world, or have a request for a SaaS app, or something that hits you that needs attention, and you're asleep?

Vicky Couturier: When I'm sleeping, I'm sleeping. I am sleeping. The rest, what we do is we have a six to five. We have somebody on the east coast that takes care of, so basically they're on from eight to two, and then we have somebody on the west coast who's on from nine until five, or six, and then we have someone who's on call. IT team's on rotation of who's going to be on call. Now, that we've grown and we have people in Australia, it's a challenge. We got to figure out how to make sure that those people are being taken care of. Right now, it's me when I wake up. I'll just look, I mean I'll see what's going on, and may respond. But being distributed, everybody's really understanding. Everyone can wait until somebody's going to take care of them.

Michoel Ogince: Right.

Vicky Couturier: Yeah. My thing about IT has been full on customer service. That's first. You got to be really good customer service, and taking care of people, and making sure that everyone in the company feels like they're being taken care of. That's my passion, that's what I built. Everyone knows that we are going to take care of them. If they have to wait a few hours, they'll wait. They know that we will take care of it.

Michoel Ogince: Wow. I want to work for you. That's awesome. Internal processes, we spoke about how employees are making requests and granting access to SaaS apps. What other internal processes have you set up, or workflows related to SaaS?

Vicky Couturier: What I've set up is what we have, is it starts in HR. Everything comes from HR. We don't do anything unless HR says yes, do that, as far as access for a person. Once the person is on and gone through the pupil team, we then have, we start everything goes to Okta, and then Okta then provisions to everything else. Even aside from that is equipment, because everybody's around the world.

Michoel Ogince: Your team oversees the equipments as well?

Vicky Couturier: Yeah, we all do equipments. We have set up a form a long time ago that is connected to my VaR that I selected a long time ago. They will ship anywhere around the world. My requirements were, "can you make sure that the person has everything at least Friday before they start on Monday." We also set up everything so that on Monday, people will have access, new hires will have access to everything that they need. That form, the minute somebody starts, they get access to sampling, and they have tasks. The first task is where do you live, what equipment do you need, and I've divided that equipment based on the departments. I mean, everybody gets a nice Mac computer, unless your in finance or legal. That's the first part. Everybody gets their equipment right away, and then on Thursday we set up. On Thursday, I have one of the support guys goes through, so his afternoon is spent giving access to everything.

Vicky Couturier: We've put a lot into Okta which is what gives access to a lot. But then we also have another access, which goes through security. Anything that touches our customers goes through GetHub. I mean, goes through security through a Jira ticket, security approves, and then we give that access after.

Michoel Ogince: What about when an employee, I know InVision's kind of like this, but surely there's been off-boarding along the way?

Vicky Couturier: Yes.

Michoel Ogince: What does off-boarding look like, specifically from a SaaS perspective?

Vicky Couturier: Off-boarding has been, it's a challenge. It really, and it still is. For a long time, I had a list in Confluence of all the apps that we knew about. We had to go through each and every single apps, especially before Okta was really put in place. It was, I don't know, over 200 apps. For myself, it was a challenge. It took me hours. For the IT support guy that started six months after me, he could spend his whole weekend doing that. It was, obviously, now with Okta in place the way that it is, at least every apps, gmail, and then everything else, that is customer facing gets deactivated right away. Now, with Intello, we know who has what. We can go in and say, okay, this person has all of these tools and then we can go in and deactivate all of that.

Michoel Ogince: Got it. Nice. What have you done the security side when there has been a security breach on a SaaS application that's used internally, has there any been like, the alarm has gone off, and you know the department or multiple departments are using SaaS application, you've had to do something about it?

Vicky Couturier: It's been a while, actually. It really has been a while.

Michoel Ogince: That's good.

Vicky Couturier: The last thing that I can remember is it was a calendar thing in Google that ...

Michoel Ogince: Third party calendar app?

Vicky Couturier: Third party somebody could share, and on the security side, they got an alert and somebody reported, "Hey, I found that some people are sharing outside of the company, their calendars." Yeah. The first thing we did was lock down calendar, so you can't share outside until Clark reached out to me and was like, "Hey, I want to share with my wife." How do we solve that? Because right now, we can't. The way everything is set up, it just locks everything down, so I'm like, "We need to figure that out." That was the last thing, the most recent thing. But surprisingly, it's pretty good.

Michoel Ogince: Going back to Okta here for a second, you mentioned a lot of provisioning is done through Okta, and obviously access, it seems like Okta's primarily being used as your single sign on and access point.

Vicky Couturier: Yes.

Michoel Ogince: Are you using any other Okta features or products around for your Saas operations?

Vicky Couturier: We're at a point where we say, the first question is, is it simul? Can we simul this? The second questions is ...

Michoel Ogince: If it's ...

Vicky Couturier: If it's not?

Michoel Ogince: Yeah.

Vicky Couturier: It still goes through.

Michoel Ogince: Do you look to, like, I know a lot of SaaS applications, to enable that simul capability, you have to pay up for it. Is that something that you ... Do you take that as a preference? All right, let's pay for this simul capability.

Vicky Couturier: No. It's a preference. It's not a paid-for. We also use better cloud, and we use, we try to get it in even if we can't get simul, we try to get it in. But if we can't, we can't. If we can do Google Off, we'll do that. If we can't, we can't. But I mean if security approves it, we'll do it and we'll manage it. Again, thank you for Intello, because Intello knows what is happening, so we can actually have that record.

Michoel Ogince: Do you still ever refer back to the spreadsheets?

Vicky Couturier: No.

Michoel Ogince: SaaS workflow, and ...

Vicky Couturier: I don't even know what that spreadsheet looks like anymore.

Michoel Ogince: I've been wanting to see those sheets. I know there's the first, this is rows and rows of SaaS apps, then you've got multiple columns of different aspects that you're tracking across all your SaaS applications. Can you share some of those things that are important to InVision?

Vicky Couturier: You know I can't share that.

Michoel Ogince: Just one. We want to know more. That goes on behind the scenes.

Vicky Couturier: There's a lot that's going on.

Michoel Ogince: Who has access to Intello at InVision that is managing the full 360 degree life cycle of SaaS?

Vicky Couturier: IT, and the BizTech team.

Michoel Ogince: How many in the BizTech team?

Vicky Couturier: Maybe a handful of people at this point have access to Intello.

Michoel Ogince: They're just ...

Vicky Couturier: You work with a few of them.

Michoel Ogince: I work with a few of them.

Vicky Couturier: Yes.

Michoel Ogince: Yeah, fortunately. Other than ...

Vicky Couturier: Their Sec is awesome.

Michoel Ogince: Other than SaaS, well let me ask you this, does IT also, as part of the SaaS operations, do you play a role in the procurement? When a SaaS application reaches the end of its life cycle, end of contract, how does IT play a role in that?

Vicky Couturier: Yes. Well, I mean, as IT, our first thing is always no.

Michoel Ogince: No, as in you're not going to play a role in that, or as in you don't want the ...

Vicky Couturier: No, we're not going to renew that. We don't want to do that. We already have this other SaaS application. That's our first thinking, old IT thinking. But, our role is to make sure everyone has what they need to get their job done. With BizTech and security, we work really, really closely together. Everything comes through as we're through the whole process. We'll look at the app. If there's any concern from IT, we'll have those questions, and we'll discuss it with BizTech, which is procurement basically, and security, and we'll talk through it. IT will, as long as we can procure it, and simul is so important to us, if we can simul it, then we're okay. We don't really care.

Michoel Ogince: When it comes to reviewing the contracts, I know you mentioned legal plays a role, but does IT at that procurement cycle, does IT play a role in reviewing the clauses or other important aspects in that SaaS subscription agreement?

Vicky Couturier: I do. I do from the beginning. From the minute somebody starts, usually, the request will come to me, and I'll say, put in an INVC request in, so that form. I'll look into it, then I'll speak with security and BizTech, and say, "Okay, here's what we think. Here's the questions that we have or the concerns that we have. We'll see the whole process through." It's a Jira ticket that we just see through, through legal. Legal will reach out to me a lot, and make sure that we have everything in place. I'm always connected with the sales person, the rep from all of these companies.

Michoel Ogince: From the vendor side?

Vicky Couturier: From all the vendors, yeah. I know a lot of vendors.

Vicky Couturier: I'm very much involved through the whole process. If I don't see any issues, and everything is a go, I usually just, I know that my team will take care of it once it's in place, because the end of the line is the requester comes to IT and partners with us to set up admin, simul, procurement, provisioning, de-provisioning, the whole process.

Michoel Ogince: Let's talk about your vision for SaaS operations. Where do you think SaaS operations is going to go?

Vicky Couturier: I think that every ...

Michoel Ogince: Two, three, four, five years from now.

Vicky Couturier: The whole world is going to be SaaS. It's all going to be SaaS. It's going to, I mean, for me, it's a dream come true. It's going to be hard. It's going to be challenging. Again, thank you for Intello, which I mean, I looked at a lot of companies before getting to talking to Intello to manage all of our SaaS, because it was reporting to the VP of Finance, the question was always, "How much are we spending? Where's our money going? Why is this happening?" It was, for me, it's been, how do we manage this? Because back in the day, it was like somebody would tap you on the shoulder and say, "Hey, can I get Adobe?" You walk to the desk and you spend five hours at the desk putting disks in, and setting it up. For me, I think this is the world, and we have to figure out. We need to come up with ... I still don't know if the real answer, it's still something I'm working through and trying to figure out how we can manage this.

Vicky Couturier: We're always going to have shadow IT, but I think as everyone gets an understanding of SaaS, and how everything works, five years, we'll be in a much better place.

Michoel Ogince: Do you think there's something missing right now, from a SaaS operations perspective, internally? What's that one thing that you wish you could bolt on to managing your SaaS applications that would make your life much easier?

Vicky Couturier: I don't know.

Michoel Ogince: More people in your team?

Vicky Couturier: More people in my team would work. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's only four of us, and I'm supposed to be the director.

Michoel Ogince: Are you hiring right now? Are you hiring?

Vicky Couturier: I am. I am hiring for an IT.

Michoel Ogince: Vicky's e-mail address is on the [crosstalk 00:34:17].

Vicky Couturier: There it is. IT support, absolutely. Yeah. We're definitely hiring. We're going to have one or two support open positions. More people is a big deal. It's not what I thought. It really isn't what I thought. Yeah, and if you love SaaS, and you're into customer support, everything ...

Vicky Couturier: I mean, do you want to work from your couch in your pajamas, and never do your hair? I mean ...

Michoel Ogince: I zoom a lot with Vicky, and most of the time the camera's off.

Vicky Couturier: The camera's always off. I mean, my hair's never done. I'm usually from my couch or my bed in my pajamas. I'm glad you bring this up, because it's a big deal, because I used to work in the city, I live in Oakland. I would get on Bart, if you guys are from the city, you know what it's like to get on Bart, you're frustrated and couple hours in, and you're finally at the office, and you're stressed out, you get in, and if you're an IT, people are hitting you up before you even get to your desk. For me and my team, it's really important, the first thing that people do, that my team does, we have an IT channel that's just IT ...

Michoel Ogince: In Slack.

Vicky Couturier: In Slack, and everybody will say good morning. That's my only thing. Just say good morning. Good morning. Then, we go from there. Clark, the quote, I mean, our CEO, Clark, your best designing is when there's no interruptions. I roll that into IT, even though we're engineers and we're not really designers. For us, it's huge because you're focused. You get so much done.

Michoel Ogince: Incredible. What keeps you up at night?

Vicky Couturier: Nothing.

Michoel Ogince: Amazing. This is awesome.

Vicky Couturier: I sleep ...

Michoel Ogince: Not when you wake up and you look at that phone.

Vicky Couturier: When I wake up, it's a whole different story.

Michoel Ogince: It's a nightmare.

Vicky Couturier: But at night, I'm really sleeping.

Michoel Ogince: Okay, cool. We're going to throw the ball into the audiences caught for some questions. Hopefully you're going to ask me, you can ask Vicky the questions. She's going to know more answers. Seriously, we have a solid five minutes for questions. Please, let's fire away. Maybe you could share your name and the company that you work for, and perhaps maybe even where you're based as well.

Danny: Yeah. How's it going? I'm Danny. IT manager at Appeal Sciences in Santa Barbara, California. Not too far from here. My question's for you, Vicky. You said you have like 400 SaaS apps, so I'm curious how you manage overlap of those apps. For example, like a project management which is highly collaboration, how useful is that if you have five project management apps, where ideally, you want everyone to be in the same [crosstalk 00:37:27]?

Michoel Ogince: Can I jump in there first?

Danny: Yeah, totally.

Vicky Couturier: Go for it.

Michoel Ogince: Their BizTech team plays obviously a key role in managing the redundancies and ensuring that there is no wasted spend on multiple applications that do the same thing. Intello's dashboard surfaces, applications based on overlap functionality, and they're able to cut a ... Maybe there's something else. I don't know ...

Vicky Couturier: To interrupt, IT always jumps in because I see everything that comes through. I don't know how. But I say, we have three other apps that do the same thing, and for project management, that's a great question, because we have so many that come through. I will tell Alicia and Jessie ...

Michoel Ogince: They're in the BizTech?

Vicky Couturier: They're in the BizTech, awesome. Awesome people. I'm so grateful for them.

Michoel Ogince: Have you ever met them? Have you met your whole team in person?

Vicky Couturier: You know what, I have. We have IRL, in real life. Once a year, we meet up somewhere. First two years ago was in LA, this last year was in Phoenix. We were all together. I got sick after IRL because well, I probably hug ...

Vicky Couturier: Well, my team mates and so many people, hundreds of people that I touched, which, and I never do because I'm always from my couch and my pajamas. Yeah, I have met them. I've spent a lot of time. They're an amazing team.

Michoel Ogince: Cool. On the project management ...

Vicky Couturier: Project management.

Michoel Ogince: Yeah. Anything else that you do to ensure ...

Vicky Couturier: What we do is again, because IT being really customer service oriented. What we say is we have these other two apps. We have two, three apps that we've already, that's gone through the process and been approved. We say we have these, will these work for you? It always does. It's like, yes, Trello, we'll use that. Okay. Then we set that up.

Michoel Ogince: Got it. Awesome. Did that answer your question? Cool. Any other questions? At the back, we got one.

Vicky Couturier: I don't know if anybody's ever been on stage but those lights.

Michoel Ogince: The lights. The only reason we're doing this is because the lights ...

William: Hi, I'm William. How does Intello collect all the SaaS information? How do you know you're not missing anything.

Vicky Couturier: Great question.

Michoel Ogince: That is an awesome question. There are a number of different ways that we service the entire SaaS portfolio across an organization. The first is through integrations with financial, accounting systems, as well as expense management systems. Through those integrations, connecting to build an expense APIs, we're able to pull in, pass, clean up, all expenses and pull them into the Intello dashboard. The expense management one is a very interesting one, so companies and employees using it concur and expensify to expense SaaS apps, where you have a lot of shadow IT that is hitting finance, and finance is like, "Oh my gosh, not the bill, I don't know what this is used for. I just see something, and it's being expensed." It's often is expensed to the incorrect category as well, so travel and entertainment or something like that. That's a key piece.

Michoel Ogince: The other key piece is through G Suites are companies that are G Suite-wide and use G Suite across the organization, so in addition to ... When an integration is made with G Suite and Intello, in addition to pulling in all the usage for those G Suite licenses ...

Vicky Couturier: If I can interrupt.

Michoel Ogince: Yeah.

Vicky Couturier: That is, for IT, my first thing when I was asked to give some API information to Intello, I was like, "What? No." What's going on here? Because what do you see? For me, my first thing was like, what if I'm just trying something and has, I'm just connecting something. What happens then? For me, it was a real, for IT, hell no. For security, it was like, "What the F?" But after talking with Intello and going through the process, I think that's a fear, because what you're doing is it's extension in G Suite. Anyone that tries something and connects to it, that's showing up.

Michoel Ogince: Right. Exactly. On the G Suite side, if someone logs into a third party SaaS app, let's just say it's Mailchimp as an example, with a G Suite. It might even be a free tool, or free up to certain point, it's never going to hit your accounting applications, through that integration, will surface that as well. There's a few other ways as well, that we're able to surface and pull in all that usage data, and provide your full SaaS portfolio. We got about a minute and 20 seconds left, so perhaps afterwards, feel welcome to e-mail me. My e-mail is up on the board. I'm happy to share more.

Vicky Couturier: Same here. We have a lot of new things that are coming into play, that are helping with those.

Michoel Ogince: Cool. We have, literally, one minute to go. I want to just to thank Vicky so much for joining us here today.

Vicky Couturier: Thank you, Michoel. Thank you Intello.

Michoel Ogince: I know you're 800 people plus.

Vicky Couturier: Thank you everyone.